Losing the Labels: Let’s Be Catholic Again.

Submitted by LocutusOP on Sun, 08/19/2018 - 23:44
Author: 
Avatar@FMShyanguya, Etchmiadzin  ,   RaymondNicholas , AvatarSteve Skojec,Brian Walsh, kiwiinamerica, Mike44R,  Gerry          
Date: 
Sunday, August 19, 2018 - 23:30
Article link: 
Losing the Labels: Let’s Be Catholic Again.

 

 

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    RaymondNicholas • 4 years ago

    First point--tremendous article. Second point--labels are here to stay because we live in heretical times. Heresy breeds division. Heresies were handled in ancient times by councils which clarified Church position, by men and women of great courage and insight, and by the biological solution. Third point--it is almost impossible to change the minds of lifetime catholics who claim to believe but do not. I came to church a half hour early for the Vigil Mass in order to pray the Rosary. I sat in front. In the back, a loud crew of middle-aged folks carried on. They could be heard all over the church. I got up, walked to the back, and gave them a royal tongue-lashing. They shut up. In fact, the whole church shut up. Since I am in my mid-sixties and have seen too many bad signs, I do not mind if I hurt the feelings of stupid, ignorant catholics. I've done the same thing to my parish priests in letters. They should know better. Blame it on my age!

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      Steve Skojec Mod RaymondNicholas • 4 years ago

      Good for you. A priest I know was recently telling me a similar story. The deacon in his parish had opened the tabernacle to retrieve the Blessed Sacrament for sick calls. The priest, seeing the exposed sacrament, knelt right where he was in the parish, which happened to be half way up the aisle. The older folks who were talking loudly stopped briefly, looked at him, looked at what he was looking at, and went back to talking again.

      "They know." He said. "But all their reverence has been rinsed away by years of exposure to the way things are."

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      Brian Walsh Steve Skojec • 9 days ago

      I do not know if it is just or proper to say that stories such as your do not even outrage or bother me owing to the irreverent act itself but rather I am deeply troubled when I contemplate what such people will face at their judgement. (And I dread my judgement, too.)

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Jerry RaymondNicholas • 10 days ago

Here's a true story from many years ago: I was at Mass. With me were my wife and six kids. Behind me in a pew were three teenage boys, whispering loudly, giggling, and in general behaving disrespectfully.

This went on for a while, and I grew increasingly angry as I took their whole act as not only disrespect for the sacred proceedings but also for me and my family.

Finally, I turned around...glared at them. They looked back at me, smiling and uncomprehending. Then I said with a fair amount of forcefulness and vehemence: "Shut the f--k up!"

Oh dear heavens, their little jaws dropped to the floor. They were stunned. But at some level they also seemed to realize that I was dead serious and might just rendezvous with them in the parking lot afterward to beat their brains in when Mass ended.

Maybe that's why they got up in a huff and left the church. Buh-bye, boys! Don't let the door hit your vulgar butts on the way out!

I guess I was just channeling my Dad. That's what he would have done. Heck, that's some version of what he did do. Not in church because it never came up. But once at the ballpark. And once at a local restaurant.

Times have changed a lot since my Dad's day. Indeed, they've even changed a lot since my encounter with those kids during Mass. And they most definitely have NOT changed for the better.

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    kiwiinamerica • 10 days ago

    I've said this before on here and I'll repeat it now, since it seems particularly relevant to this article. It also perfectly captures in a most succinct and forceful manner, the seismic change which has shaken the Church and the world.

    When I was a kid we prayed for the Pope's intentions and the conversion of Russia. Nowadays, I pray for Russia's intentions and the conversion of the Pope.

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      Etchmiadzin kiwiinamerica • 9 days ago

      I was always troubled by that “consecration of Russia” part of the Fatima prophesy. The Russian Orthodox Church, while in schism with Catholicism, is certainly Christian. Moscow has always been thought of as the Rome of the east and I’m sure the Orthodox Church has reconsecrated Russia to Christ since the Soviet Union fell.

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      Brian Walsh Etchmiadzin • 9 days ago

      Except Our Lady of Fatima said prayer for the conversion of Russia by which she would have meant to the Catholic faith, the Church which holds the fullness of truth.

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      Mike44R Etchmiadzin • 6 days ago

      Any person, organization or "church" that separates from the Catholic Church severs thenselves from the Mystical Body of Christ and loses the benefits thereof - eternal life. By separating from the Catholic Church they deny the Truth and become like amputated limbs - yes, they are parts of the body. Are they still? No. Do they continue to have divine life in them? No. Because Jesus founded only one Church and no other. And only the Catholic consecrated bread and wine which thus becomes the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ gives eternal life. ALL other communions are imitations.

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      Etchmiadzin Mike44R • 6 days ago

      Are you a priest or a theologian? No you are not. I’ve spk n to TLM priests about this subject and you are wrong.

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      Mike44R Etchmiadzin • 6 days ago

      If you ask someone a question you should let them answer. You have neither the authority or the ability to answer for them.

      Yes, I am a Catholic theologian. Merely because a priest celebrates the "TLM" does not mean he rejects the errors of Vatican Ii and after. If I am wrong from an orthodox/authentic Catholic position, show me where my error is and why it is wrong. The orthodox position of the Catholic Church is that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

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    Gerry Etchmiadzin • 9 days ago

    The Orthodox Churches, including the Russian, that are separated from Rome, are both heretical and schismatic and refuse the authority of the Catholic Church. Churches separated from the unity of the Catholic Church are not according to the will of Christ, Who demands that His followers should form one flock under one shepherd. No Catholic therefore may take part in, or sanction in any way, the services of the Orthodox Churches.

    “Moscow has always been thought of as the Rome of the east.” By the various orthodox churches? No. By the Catholic Church? No. Then by whom?

    Whether Russia has been consecrated to Christ or not is irrelevant in this context. Our Lady of Fatima called for Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with the Catholic Bishops of the world.

    If individual Russians are saved then it is despite the schismatic Russian Orthodox Church and its heresies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Own comment: 

It is rarely that I disagree with Steve Skojec, but on this matter I disagree with him very strongly.

Few things would please me more than to be able to simply say "I am Catholic". However, we must be honest and admit that most people do not know the meaning of the word Catholic nowadays. It means pretty much anything.

I am in agreement with Michael Matt who said a while back on The Remnant Underground that the distinction "traditional" is unfortunate, but useful. Until and unless the Church regains Her bearings, I cannot call myself anything other than a "traditional Catholic", at least when speaking with other Catholics.

Of course, the only way to be Catholic is to be a traditionalist. However, most Novus Ordites either do now know or refuse to recognise this fact. When NOChurch abandons Novusordoism, I shall be the first to drop the qualifier, but until then, I shall be in the traditionalist camp shouting loudly "That is not the Catholic Church! That is not my Church! That is not the Church of the saints!"

On another note, I am a big fan of Russia and I am very enarmoured with what is going on in Russia vis-a-vis it's apparent re-Christianisation. However, I also recognise the Orthodox as schismatics, and they have serious doctrinal problems, which are not to be ignored. From what I can tell virtually only the Russian Orthodox Church is doing 'well', and that is only by Novus Ordo standards. Therefore I am in full agreement with Gerry when he writes:

The Orthodox Churches, including the Russian, that are separated from Rome, are both heretical and schismatic and refuse the authority of the Catholic Church. Churches separated from the unity of the Catholic Church are not according to the will of Christ, Who demands that His followers should form one flock under one shepherd. No Catholic therefore may take part in, or sanction in any way, the services of the Orthodox Churches.

“Moscow has always been thought of as the Rome of the east.” By the various orthodox churches? No. By the Catholic Church? No. Then by whom?

Whether Russia has been consecrated to Christ or not is irrelevant in this context. Our Lady of Fatima called for Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with the Catholic Bishops of the world.

If individual Russians are saved then it is despite the schismatic Russian Orthodox Church and its heresies.

 

The idea that "Moscow has always been thought of as the Rome of the east" is laughable at best even on one's most charitable day and I am glad that point falsehood was confronted head-on.