Will he never stop ... (2) Pope Francis, the Our Father, and the next Conclave



Saturday, December 16, 2017 - 23:45
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TLM said...

No Fr., he will never stop. He is on a mission and not a mission to 'benefit' the Church, sad to say. I really don't see any Bishop ready and willing to step in to 'correct' him, so I think we are pretty much on our own.


Woody said...

Very good points, Father. Someone like PF was bound to occur. I see him as a "wake up call" to remind us of how out of touch we have become with our roots, the Tradition that has been handed down from generation to generation. We have forgotten our way and need to repent and get back to our roots.


Liam Ronan said...

Simply marvelous, Father. Educational and edifying as always. Thank you.

I have a question regarding the matter of the portion of the Lord's Prayer which petitions "and lead us not into temptation...".

Did God tempt Abraham to sin, i.e. take the life of his innocent son?

"He said to him: 'Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for an holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will shew thee.'..." Genesis 22:2

Grant Milburn said...

“I desired that the senate of Rome might appear before me, in one large chamber, and an assembly of somewhat a later age in counterview, in another. The first seemed to be an assembly of heroes and demigods; the other, a knot of pedlars, pick-pockets, highwayman, and bullies.” (Swift)

I think that after fifty years we can see why the Mass must NOT in the vernacular. It encourages every charlatan to improvise, ad-lib, ramble, insert creative extras and alter the text at will. It allows any banal ditty to be substituted for the chants. It allows those with a malevolent agenda to introduce inaccuracies, and tendentious and misleading translations. We had a worse than useless translation of the collects for thirty years, and the Indonesian Mass still has something completely different from the NO Latin. The Indonesian Mass also translates “pro multis” as “for all” and clearly always will. This is not incompetence: it is enemy action. I read that John Senior said somewhere that the NO was designed to destroy the Catholic Faith. I'm beginning to think he was right. The NO is certainly valid, but I fear that I the vernacular NO is an incorrigible rogue that will never be put right. Stick with the TLM and pray the highwaymen do not force us to use the vernacular there too apart from the sermon.


El Codo said...

Now the issue of Abraham is troubling. Of course,it is a test. But such a vile and unacceptable one,child sacrifice when the people of God were standing out from all that paganism around them! There are some very moving Youtube clips on this,where the Faith of Abraham,and Isaac,are portrayed beautifully. The son is obedient to the father...an early echo of the Lamb’s offering.


Kathleen1031 said...

Thank you Father Hunwicke, so well put, and don't we so desperately pine for a voice to represent OUR feelings for a change.
I just wrote a paragraph on this, then remembered it is your blog site and deleted it.
For 2000 years this prayer has been prayed by Christians.
It is one of the last things we have, to unify us.
If he gets his way, no two Christians can pray it knowing they will pray the same words. That will end. Some will change, some will not. Division.
Does Christendom need more division.
Please God, help us, this papacy is just intolerable.


James Toro said...

The smoke of Satan in the Vatican. God help us. Amen


Domenico Alonzi said...

The mercy taught by Bergoglio is false and different from that taught by Jesus. The word is the same but the teaching is profoundly different. The mercy of Jesus forgives and encourages to sin no more, in order to go to Heaven; the mercy of Bergoglio is easy to obtain (because it comes only from God, without efforts from the sinner), but if one does not change life and remains in sin, at the end of their earthly life, they will face the merciful justice of the Father that will condemn sinners to hell. http://www.difendiamolaverita.it/en/letsdefendtruefaith/lets-defend-the-...


Mary Welch said...

You make an interesting point re “forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.”
If one gratuitously insults another, say, there are two aspects involved. On the one hand, one sins against God by offending his law to love one’s neighbour. On the other hand, one diminishes the other to the extent that one deprives him of the dignity due him as a creature, made in the image and likeness of God. This diminution of the other places one in his debt insofar as one owes him what one has taken away from him.
One can write-off the debts of another to one, the trespassing effects of his sin; but it is up to God alone to forgive the sin.
On the face of it, it seems somewhat unjust that God can forgive X the harm he does Y, eventhough Y is the injured party and may not feel inclined to do the same. Perhaps the best resolution to this is in Matthew 6:14. To the extent that one is willing to write-off the effects of another’s sin against one, then God can forgive one one’s sins. And this is a necessary condition for God’s forgiveness. For it would be unjust of God to forgive you the harm you do others, if you are unwilling to forgive others the harm they do you.

New translation: “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
I wonder if the Greek would bear this.


coradcorloquitur said...

The simple answer to this column quite simply is "No," Francis will not stop subverting the Church while he lives. That is why he was elected and the plan proceeds apace. Many good Catholics cannot stand to contemplate this. One may want to justify the destruction any way one wants (including rather sophistical legal technicalities about what constitutes magisterial pronouncements or what is heresy or not or whether a pope is auto-deposed by spouting it, even by accusations without substance, such as the one by one of your commentators who likens those who speak the truth about Francis as "being on the same path as Luther and Calvin"), but the fact remains that the Church of Christ is being demolished right before our very eyes, and right reason confirms it. What also remain a great mystery is why God allows it---and into that territory I will certainly not venture. I will finish by saying that, as an Anglican convert from many decades ago (I was in my youth then), I am deeply saddened for the more recent converts who have come into the Church rightly expecting a healthy, loving Mother and have instead found a besieged, divided, wounded, and humiliated one---the innumerable blessings of the Faith Itself (reward enough, I'd say) notwithstanding. God bless you and your wonderful blog. Robert Carballo

Unknown said...

I feel here a very warm, honest hart, and I need to say something about the last sentence.
I believe honestly, no one should be sad about those who are called by our God, and who positively have responded to the Father's call. It does not matter in which time (of suffering of His Holy Church) they were called, they are truly blessed, because,- they were called and they said a big yes to their Father.
They all (the converts) could be then even the 'workers of the ninth or eleventh hour' in the vineyard of our Lord ans Master, but we know, they will be paid righteously.
The point is, there will always be some other labourers (from the morning hours) who are murmuring against the Master about 'inequality' of his treatment, but every honest and diligent worker, of any time, should never worry about that.
His only concern should be to perform his work in the best possible way to satisfy the Lord.
With saying this, hired workers, especially those of the late hours should know, that in the end of the working day often times the job can be really tough and voluminous.

And then, only after completion of the (good) work to the end, after the end of the day, labourers will be paid with the reward they deserve.

We are blessed because the Master choose us, but we must know, that He choose us to WORK for Him here and now. And here and now is the hour of very tough work indeed.



Own comment: 

The good Fr. John Hunwicke writes:

What repeatedly ... it seems, almost daily !! ... irritates me about PF is his endless propensity to treat the Depositum Fidei, the Universal Church and what she has inherited from the Apostles or from the generations since, as something which is at his disposal to change, to criticise, or to mangle in any way that appeals to his personal whimsy at any particular moment. He is like a toddler who has been given toys to play with ... a big, boisterous and wilful child who likes to play with them rather roughly; whose commonest phrase is "I want ...". If anyone suggests that he should perhaps handle them rather more gently, he throws a tantrum. I am immensely sorry to have to write like this about Christ's Vicar but, ever since his election, PF has appeared to me to want attention to be drawn particularly to those parts of his personal 'style' which mark him as most radically different from his predecessors. A pope who disliked close scrutiny and the consequent criticism would keep the journalists and cameramen at a distance, say a very great deal less, and speak only after taking competent advice. An ecclesiastic who deliberately sollicits attention is ill-placed to complain if he gets it, nor can his sycophants plausibly do so on his behalf. This pontificate did not invent the unfortunate modern phenomenon of the celebrity pope, but it has shown how very dangerous and divisive that cult is.

Those sentiments I share entirely.