Twelve Reasons Not to Prefer the Novus Ordo: A Reply to Fr. Longenecker

Submitted by LocutusOP on Tue, 01/15/2019 - 23:19
Author: 

Maggie ,  Debby Rust  , JBee449 ,AvatarMatt Gunnarson, LL,AvatarMark Johnson, MalachyBernard, teomatteo,AvatarJulius,AvatarMatt Robinson,KM,AvatarPearl of York,AvatarKidAKidB,AvatarAugustine,Avatarcs,Avatarryan1fitz,AvatarThomas J. McIntyre, Rod Halvorsen, Jennifer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

               

Date: 
Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - 23:15
Article link: 
Twelve Reasons Not to Prefer the Novus Ordo: A Reply to Fr. Longenecker

 

    • Avatar
      Maggie • 12 days ago

      Anyone who travels and attends novus ordo Mass across the country knows that it is different every place you go. Do the children come up to the altar? Does the priest make it up a bit as he goes along? Is the music so bad you can hardly stand it? Is there a lot of talking before, maybe during, and after Mass? With so many "options" the prayers might be different with each Mass. Do they hold hands at the Our Father? Stand at the consecration? And so on. But attend the TLM anywhere and you will have reverence, holiness, orthodoxy, and the rite offered properly without ad lib, additions, subtractions, terrible music, lots of talking, etc.

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      Debby Rust Maggie • 12 days ago

      I have attended New Order services in many places.....and I have an answer for every one of your excellent questions...YES. There are no two alike....similarities, but no two the same. The reason? By allowing the myriad number of "kinds" of liturgy, the universal aspect of the Four Marks of the Church becomes less and less. It was so designed.

 ...

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      JBee449 • 13 days ago

      Oh my. This is very, very good. What a trove of helpful links. I've been wanting a one-stop article that puts all the pieces together, and this really does it. Nicely done.

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      LL JBee449 • 12 days ago

      I find many of these responses to be quite arrogant. It’s like if I attend a NO mass my participation in the Eucharist is less grace-filled than if I attend a Latin Mass. Please. For the first time this article and the responses have caused me to seriously question the true intent of this blog site.

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    Mark Johnson LL • 11 days ago

    Please tell us where the arrogance is. I find arrogance in what the 'reformers' did in the drafting of the NO mass wherein there is much rupture with the TLM - that they could scrap a lot of what came before and come up with something greater.

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      MalachyBernard LL • 12 days ago

      What specifically in the article or the comments has brought you to that conclusion? I'm particularly interested in how you extrapolated this from what was said:

      "It’s like if I attend a NO mass my participation in the Eucharist is less grace-filled than if I attend a Latin Mass."

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    Julius LL • 8 days ago

    The charitable answer to your second point is: correct!

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    Matt Robinson LL • 10 days ago

    More arrogant than Bugnini composing prayers for the New Mass while in the shower?

    Now that's arrogant.

    The Roman Mass is Catholic, the New Mass is a modern fiction from both the perspective of history and semantics. Deal with it.

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    KM LL • 10 days ago

    You are seeing on the matter from a human perspective when you focus on which Mass you might get more out of. Perhaps the better question is which Mass offers better worship to God. Read the prayers of both, and it is abundantly clear that TLM does so.

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    Pearl of York LL • 11 days ago

    We are all journeying this vale of tears. In my opinion, the current state of affairs with two liturgies only makes the chasm more profound. It really is like two different religions. However, I don’t doubt that the Eucharist is valid in the NO.

    Many Catholics have not yet “red-pilled”. Maybe 2019 will be your year. Then again, maybe not.

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      KidAKidB LL • 10 days ago

      Exactly my opinion as well. Reading these responses have made me decided to never go back to another TLM again if being traditionalist makes you forget the real reason you should be there to begin with. The arrogance in these responses are absolutely mind boggling. To me it feels like people aren't even going to TLM because they truly believe, but more because they're invested in the historical aspect of the practices.

      I attend both TLM and NO parishes roughly 50% of the time, but the more I read responses from traditionalists the more I'm leaning towards never going to another TLM mass again.

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    Augustine KidAKidB • 7 days ago

    Historical? The traditional liturgies were composed by holy men, fathers and doctors of the Church, not a committee of tyrannical snobs!

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    KidAKidB cs • 10 days ago

    I think it's more that I notice especially online, people tend to look down on those that actually do prefer Novus Ordo Mass. I split my time between TLM and NO (My wife refuses to go back to TLM because she prefers our NO parish). I don't see NO or TLM as better or worse than each other. What matters is that people are worshiping God and have faith.

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      ryan1fitz KidAKidB • 8 days ago

      The most important part of the Mass is not the faithful worshiping God. In fact, it isn't necessary at all, as many traditional Masses are said with only the priest and the servers present. The primary goal of the Mass is to offer the sacrifice of the Cross in an unbloody manner to God, and the TLM does that objectively better than the NO. There's no arrogance here, parishes across both the NO and the TLM are comprised of very flawed people, trying their best to do what God wishes them to. It is better to go to the TLM simply because it better accomplishes its goal as a Sacrifice. Granted, it is good for the faithful to take part in the Mass, and when they do it is through them being joined to the prayer of the Church.

    ...

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      Thomas J. McIntyre • 13 days ago

      "I’ve asked traditionalists if they can tell me what is so terribly wrong with it–just the words in the book–not all the other abuses and things they don’t like that are associated with Vatican II.

      Nobody’s given me a good answer yet."

      Clearly, he's never been on this website. I had the same attitude toward the Offertory prayers as that of Fr. Longnecker until I started reading articles here and actually sat down and read the translation of the Offertory for the TLM. I remember remarking to a few Trad friends of mine, in disbelief, "This is awesome. WHY did we take this out?"

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        Rod Halvorsen Thomas J. McIntyre • 12 days ago

        "This is awesome. WHY did we take this out?"

        I say it over and over and over about modern renditions of Catholicism in-general.

        I NEVER cease to be amazed, edified, empowered, enlightened, BLESSED by the teaching, laws and traditions of the Catholic faith into which I converted.

        Too bad so much of it exists on-paper, and is simply not seen in practice.

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      Jennifer Thomas J. McIntyre • 12 days ago

      "This is awesome. WHY did we take this out?" I find that we can say that about TONS of things that were (diabolically) removed from the N.O. I always imagine the meeting where some Bishop put forth: "Hey, let's stop saying the St. Michael prayer after Mass. " Who were the guys that said, "Yep. Sounds like a great idea."

      As for the petitions ... I was once at a N.O. Mass and was startled when the laity started yelling out petitions, one of which was, "That our government will enact stricter gun laws." Ugh.

     

     

     

     

     

    Own comment: 

    It is instructive that anybody who tries to defend the Novus Ordo Missae will soon, if not immediately, come up with either non-Catholic or anti-Catholic reasons for it.

    The truth of the matter is that it is never more clear that Novusordoism is a truly different religion to Catholicism than when a Novus Ordite tries to defend it, because invariably the defence amounts to an attack of time-honoured Catholic practice and doctrine.

    Actually, the best defence Novus Ordites come up with is "it's mean to say the new Mass is not as good as the old one" or "I like the new Mass", which, I am sure you will agree, are not arguments by and stretch of any language.