Pope Francis Tells Cdl. Marx Not to Publish the Intercommunion Handout

Al The Silent Crusader • 4 days ago

My take on this is that Bergoglio does not want any of this in writing. You cannot "officially" change doctrine if it is not in writing, OK?! Instead, Bergoglio will continue to undermine Church teaching in his backhanded, sly modus operandi.

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  Roderick Halvorsen Al The Silent Crusader • 4 days ago

  Yes, Al.

  Nothing of a proclaimed dogmatic nature On Paper will be heretical. All heresy will be kept to practice, footnotes, private letters and conversations.

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DNBon • 4 days ago

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Fr. Peter Morello • 4 days ago

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  Peter James Musielski • 4 days ago

  Francis likes to throw us a bone once in awhile. I bet the next document will have many "footnotes".

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    how's_the_boy Peter James Musielski • 4 days ago

    This is exactly it. They will rewrite the handout to discourage sacrilegious Communion but insert a footnote to encourage it.

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George Davis • 4 days ago

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• kiwiinamerica • 4 days ago
  

  Key point:

  "The Holy Father therefore has come to the conclusion that this document is not ripe for publication."

  Translation: yeah, it's going to happen......sooner or later.....but now is not a good time.

  Y'all have no doubt noticed that Bergoglio likes to burnish his Catholic bona fides, once in a while, for the benefit of the 98% who are still slumbering in the pews.

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    João Pedro kiwiinamerica • 4 days ago

    I agree. That sounds pretty ominous.

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  Tree of Forgiveness • 4 days ago

  "...not ripe for publication.": We need to force this on the faithful more slowly, gradually.

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  JohnnyCuredents Tree of Forgiveness • 4 days ago

  I don't know about the Vatican's judgment on this score. The stench it gives off tells me it's overripe.

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  TCTheTiger1 Tree of Forgiveness • 4 days ago

  Not ripe? So, publish when it is? Someone please clarify.....

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  Tree of Forgiveness TCTheTiger1 • 4 days ago

  Vatican crop-dusters were asleep at the stick. The blight of orthodoxy isn't entirely eradicated.

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  how's_the_boy TCTheTiger1 • 4 days ago

  There were probably some formatting and spelling errors ;+)

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  Kevin Kirwan James • 3 days ago

  So are you saying that the one who now occupies the See of Peter is "illegitimately" exercising that special charism afforded (According to Vatican I) only to the Roman Bishop? According to you and others here Christ while promising to protect his Church from the gates of hell and does so by providing whoever the current Bishop of Rome is with a supernatural charism which would prevent him from promoting or teaching error in matters of Faith or morals has failed you miserably? Unless of course that whole medieval boondoggle of a system invented by those in schism is to blame?

  If Christ will never abandon His Church which He won't and has not he also would not do so for even a few years or decades now and then to accommodate what you would have to say are his many mistakes.

  Fr. Deacon Kevin

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    James Kevin Kirwan • 3 days ago

    Again, how are you reading what is before you?
    "Should the pope exceed his authority it is he who ceases to exercise his office. It is an illegitimate act. He renders himself illegitimate IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE."
    No, Christ does not abandon His Church, but He also does not preserve it from trials which will serve to purify it – even if their significance and purpose is not immediately apparent. We have had epochs in our ecclesiastical history which have appeared far more trying than this – the first three hundred years of the faith immediately come to mind.
    As for the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the current pontificate in its entirety I could not say. It is absolutely beyond my competency, but that it is in question from the pre-conclave enterprise to each bizarre exhibition of dubious behavior is of no doubt. The judgement on this will not be passed during my lifetime, unfortunately.
    Is the Bergoglian debacle a not so roundabout attempt to undermine the
    papacy and, once done, refigure the office to suit the purpose of the new “church” they confect – the New Paradigm? It is a question. (I myself have at times thought of this period of church history as the “Bergoglian Captivity.”) Those who uphold the divinely constituted authority of the papacy would thus find themselves demoralized, neutralized.
    Wielding boldly "evangelical obedience” as a weapon, and subconscious appeals to loyalty to silence orthodox, pious and devout clergy, religious and laity, these operators are having their way. How is one to defend the papacy when it has been debased intentionally – and from within, no less?
    We are left with the dilemma that the current pontificate is not
    unsurprisingly regarded as surreptitiously undermining the perennial
    Magisterium conserved, proclaimed and amplified by his predecessors. He is at least a historical anomaly – but perhaps merely symptomatic of the age of rationalization and relativism conceived in atheistic narcissism.
    It is a conundrum which will only be unraveled with courage. I believe Pope Benedict himself said while still exercising the authority of the office of Peter that it would be at least another forty years before the Church found its way out of the post-conciliar disorientation it has been suffering.
    Perhaps it will be longer.
    Nevertheless, papolatry is a form of heresy. Heresy in itself being a truth
    decontextualized and given groundless emphasis.
    One has the impression from yours that you yourself take a perverse delight in this odd contrivance the Church presently suffers. Perhaps your own self-examination would answer some of your “queries?”
    While good will surely arise from this period, for Divine Providence allows what we perceive as an evil, whether it be so or not, only in order for the development of a greater good, we need presently operate in a state of faith embracing with the greatest trust the perennial Magisterium of Christ’s Church.

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    how's_the_boy James • 3 days ago

    Another great response James. But i think it is a waste of time after the second admonition. Kevin has been over at the Remnant recently with the same gloating over the sufferings of Chris's Bride.

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    Kevin Kirwan how's_the_boy • 2 days ago

    James I am not gloating over the suffering of Christ's bride. The Orthodox Catholic Church is doing just fine. I am just pointing out the obvious defective medieval ecclessiology of our separated Latin brethren who make no sense with their constant condemnation of Pope Francis. Many can't even call him Pope but with constant loathing and derision call him Bergolli or his reign as "The Bergollian Captivity" You are not showing yourselves faithful Roman Catholics pure and simple in your non acceptance of Pope Francis's teaching or authority. Tell me where in the documents of Vatican I where it says a Pope could possibly exceed his divine authority? How could he possibly exceed the power or authority which is his absolutely and which answers to no one or anything even an Ecumenical Council? I have been encouraged to read that which is before me yet none here seem to be willing to read the nonsensical declarations of Vatican I?

    The captivity of the Latin Church goes back over 900 years. It will last until she finally returns to the Apostolic and Catholic fold she abandoned long long ago. Fr. Deacon Kevin

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    Roderick Halvorsen Kevin Kirwan • 2 days ago

    The "Orthodox Churches" have some notable positives compared to some of the other sects calling themselves Christian but overall they are fragmented and off the rails as well.

    The severe fight we are engaged in on moral corruption in adulterous reception of communion like the Protestants you guys surrendered to many years ago with your wholly immoral, Jesus-denying and adultery-approving theology of what amounts to "3 Strikes You're Out". Orthodoxy possesses no catholicity and is a disconnected conglomeration of ghetto churches, each associated strongly with ethnic and nationalistic entities which causes none of your churches to be in any true way fully in agreement even with each other. If a fellow was to want to convert to "Orthodoxy" he best first ask "To Which One?" and get all the specifics before he does.

    Liberalism permeates the Orthodox {sadly, like all Christianity these days} in spite of the pretend "conservatism" spouted so often by some. It's nice that the Russian Orthodox have finally cleaned up their alliance with Soviet Communism but that shouldn't matter to the Greeks, etc, since there is no true thing such as a unified "Orthodox Church" concept anyhow so you can pick and choose whichever brand of the general movement you want to associate with, just as the Protestants do.

    And after the 964 years since your schism, while the Catholic Church has been evangelizing the WHOLE WORLD, the Orthodox still haven't penetrated vast regions of the globe or accomplished anything like the work for Christ that the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church AKA Catholic Church has, EVEN WITH Her problems. You reference all Her problems and that only demonstrates how poorly the "Orthodox" have worked for Christ in that with one hand tied behind Her back the Church has done a better job of evangelization than all the combined efforts of the fragmented synods of the Orthodox have accomplished TOGETHER. And the Catholic Church did most all of that worshiping in a language nobody local spoke while you guys touted the joys and necessity of the vernacular!

    In the end, "How is that working out for you?" is a good question for you to answer as until you guys all get together and offer something approaching what the Catholic Church {even WITH Her troubles} offers, the obvious answer from you is a resounding: "Not too well".

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    Kevin Kirwan Roderick Halvorsen • 2 days ago

    Got your knickers in a twist Roderick? I will gladly embrace the Orthodox Catholic attitude of extending mercy and forgiveness to those wicked remarried adulterers over the let's pay the diocese 5K and call it an annulment gang any old day.

    We do it because we can and Jesus Himself granted us the authority to loose and bind. Seems you are just a big fan of the bind part. Remember my self congratulating friend the next time you are walking down the beach and your eye causes you to stumble, to immediately take a few moments and pluck it out before damnation comes calling. I'd hate to see your adultery go unforgiven.

    The rest of your nonsense. Well it's just nonsense. Fr. Deacon Kevin

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    Roderick Halvorsen Kevin Kirwan • a day ago

    Actually, I am a bit of an Orthodoxy fan {compared to some of the other schismatic or heretical groups}, but your insulting posts prompted me to simply give you some facts in a rather straightforward manner.

    Your supposed "mercy" denies the straight up words of Jesus {which are NOT open to binding or loosing}, which puts your group in the unenviable position of telling Jesus both that He isn't as merciful as you are and that He isn't merciful enough. And thus you make Him out to be either a liar or a fraud.

    Then you positively compare a misapplication of the preserved true doctrines of the Catholic Church {which by the way doesn't occur everywhere and always} with the heresy of your group's doctrine, making them moral equals! To which I must say "Bravo, Kevin!". I agree! You are right, they are both equal: A corrupt Catholic practice is morally equal to a stated doctrine of Orthodoxy!

    Well said Kevin!

    Regarding sins committed, well, I thought confession/penance was something we had at least in theory in common. I assumed that the Orthodox agree that a good confession includes the commitment to "have the firm purpose of not sinning again" {Baltimore Catechism 383}.

    That's something not quite in the cards for an ongoing relationship such as involves so-called subsequent "marriages" after a divorce...which are adulterous and something your doctrines wholly affirm.

    "But if the wicked do penance for all his sins which he hath committed and keep all my commandments and do judgment and justice, living he shall live, and shall not die." (Ezekiel 18:21)

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  Roderick Halvorsen Kevin Kirwan • 4 days ago

  You have fallen prey to the self-same papolatry that many Catholics have. You misunderstand the papacy and in your confusion you leave yourself with no other option than to affirm a caricature of the papacy or no papacy at all.

  It is not the "papal system" that is flawed. It is all men, Popes included, that are flawed. And occasionally and thankfully not too often {all things considered in history} Popes who exhibit a variety of excessive flaws. There are limits to what you call "immediate and complete authority" which cause such phrases to be false.

  The problem with Francis is not his proclamation of heresy, it is his private acts and statements that simply prove what the Church has always taught; Popes are people, too, and liable to sin, liable to make mistakes, liable to cause a ruckus. Some do. He does.

  We are to give mental assent to his teaching. In the event we know what his teaching is, that is certainly clear. But it is his lack of clarity in teaching and encouragement of those who do teach heresy that demands resistance to his face, just as St Paul was forced to do with St Peter.

  You would sink the ship because the Captain is drunk. We choose to sober the Captain up so we might know what sheets to hoist and which ones to lower.

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  Observator14 Kevin Kirwan • 2 days ago

  You forget, that the Schism of 1054 was not permanent. Pope Urban called up western Catholics to help eastern Catholics of the Byzantine empire in the first Crusade some forty years later, and there was still communion.
  Furthermore, do not forget that the Byzantine Orthodox (as different from the Alexandrian, Antiochian, Armenian, etc. Orthodox) have frequently been very nationalistic in their separation. When the Patriarch of Constantinople invited sister churches to a recent all-orthodox meeting, he was snubbed by Moscow and three other national churches. Many have different ways of acting and operating.
  The excessive bureaucratization of the Vatican is certainly something to be overcome in its strong centralization, but it has had its merits in maintaining a unity and a strong moral voice in the world.
  We must stop preening ourselves on our superiorities and listen more attentively to Christ's call to be "one, as He and the Father are One". It will take respect for one another, different historical practices as well as customs, a sincere dialog in depth to understand one another, work and pray together.

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  João Pedro • 4 days ago

  «The Luther year 2017, adds the prefect, has shown that there exists “a basis” which “makes it possible to give witness together to Jesus Christ, the savior of mankind.”» Which basis?...

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Thomas J. Hennigan • 5 days ago

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Sgt Pops • 5 days ago