Ireland and the end of cultural Catholicism

1. 
   
   asdf

   May 28, 2018 at 5:26 pm

   Oh, take it one step further. What caused the corrosion of the American Catholic culture in the strongholds you cite? Politics. The Church was infiltrated here, and in Ireland.

   Catholics haven’t suddenly become pro abortion en masse. They have been beguiled by their leadership, which has long since sold itself to the purveyors of glor

...

1. 
   
   Inigo

   May 28, 2018 at 6:21 pm

   “But the problem was that their Catholicism was too linked to their national or ethnic culture. They were Catholic because they were Polish or because they were Italian or because they were Irish or Portuguese, and when, after a few generations, they stopped being Irish, Polish or Italian and were just American, they also stopped being Catholic.” That’s a bit simplistic. I live near to a small city in New England where the Portuguese community is still quite Portuguese in language and culture but has seen the closure of Portuguese parishes; yet it still has numerous cultural festivals and plenty of pub chairs available to watch Benfica. Also, I know a parish which was traditionally French which still has a lot of French people even though the local Franco-American club has five members. It appears more likely that many of the ethnic people who remained Catholic did so because they were Catholic, not because they were ethnic.

    
   • 
     
     Ivan mi je ime

     May 29, 2018 at 12:34 am

     Yes. I agree with you. It is not only a bit simplistic, but it seems to be not the right way of approaching the main (big) problem. Thus no, I’d say that, while this piece is very well written and in good and healthy optimism, I also will say that I disagree with the way of thinking that the “problem was that their Catholicism was too linked to their national or ethnic culture.”

     A numerous national and ethnic cultures of many Catholic Nations are rather richness and great treasure for Catholic Church and all mankind on Earth, than a problem. That richness of the beauty of the diversity is the purpose for which we differ. And we (all the Nations) should preserve, nurture and defend his own treasure, which is widely known under the term – Tradition!

     As we, as Catholic Nations have (had) that kind of diversely national traditions, and folklore, we also have (had) as Catholic Nations, as the parts of one Mystical Body – Christ’s Church, much more beautiful, but also very, immensely more important,- non-diversely but unique, uniform, universal, apostolic and Catholic FAITH and LITURGY.
     Our CATHOLIC FAITH and certainly our HOLY LITURGY, namely the Mass of All Ages, the TLM, given to us as the most important gift from our Lord and for our very own sake, which was keept, preserved and saved by the Christ’s faithful ones (once), maintained for 15 centuries long the same,… until the 60’s of the last century and the non-famous Vatican 2 council,…
     Thus, the Holy Mass – with ONE and the same official Church language, which was and still is,- the LATIN, WAS AND STILL IS THAT WHAT IN FIRST PLACE MUST HAVE NEVER BEEN ABOLISHED AND EVEN PROHIBITED.
     We are not the Babylonians, therefore we ALL around the whole world, should and must celebrate and serve our God the Lord in one and the same language – LATIN language, the official language of the Catholic Church.
     With which beautiful diversity and a lot of folklore and traditions of all different Catholic Nations, have nothing to do.
     It is not America, European Union, Africa, or whatever country or continent that we wish to make it “great”, – but we all should do our best effort to make the Kingdom of our God the Lord- great again! Even on this earth. Entire Earth. Greater than America, Europa, Russia, Africa, Antarctica…

      
     • 
       
       Inigo

       May 29, 2018 at 10:34 am

       Ivan – thanks for your comment. I agree that TLM should be held in high honor in the Latin Rite. And a Church that honored its Tradition would be more united and a stronger force against the progressive secular culture.

 ...

1. 
   
   TERENCE MCMANUS

   May 28, 2018 at 7:34 pm

   Fr. Morello – No mention of the clerical abuse scandal? Would that not have a terrible effect on the Church? I am of Irish descent and a practicing Catholic.

   Reply
   • 
     
     asd

     May 29, 2018 at 4:36 am

     It’s that habit of refusing to acknowledge it, discuss it, own up to it, suffer for it — but that eagerness to pay for it — that despicable habit — that alienates people of good will.

     Reply
   • 
     
     Quid

     May 29, 2018 at 5:36 am

     I assumed that was included in the phrase “moral corruption.” But, yes, that played such a huge role (I believe) in alienating the recent generation of Irish from the Church that perhaps it shouldn’t be hidden in generalities.

     I can’t help but be stricken by the fact that Satan played his hand perfectly in Ireland. First, a focused artillery barrage in the form of revealing the “financial and moral corruption” in the Church worldwide, including the Irish Church. The media and other of the devil’s (witting or unwitting) minions facilitated the devastating effects of this attack by ignoring the same exact scandals in other areas of culture and society (other religions, schools, politics, etc., etc., etc.) This succeeded in painting the institutional Church — justly or not — as nothing more than a club for perverts and pedophiles. Once the Church’s moral authority and credibility had been completely destroyed, time was ripe for the main attack. Ireland was specifically targeted with tons of Soros-esque money and propaganda, and the organs of opinion were very successfully able to manufacture broad consent to the idea that the opposition to abortion, and not abortion itself, was a national disgrace. Still high on the fumes of economic success, and infatuated like a schoolgirl with their new paramours in the EU, coupled with rotten catechesis and a Church that had allowed its litury to devolve into a lame spectacle of the church-of-nice, what happened with homosexual marriage and abortion was a foregone conclusion. The Irish have been played like a harp. Welcome the the modern world (i.e., hell).

      
   • 
     
     Fr Peter Morello

     May 29, 2018 at 5:50 am

     Certainly Terrance. Homosexual abuse of minors by clergy and with other adults is perhaps the major catalyst for the Apostasy affecting the entire Church. The recent scandals in Ireland involving prelates has reinforced a long developing rejection of Catholicism. You can read into that in some of the great Irish writers James Joyce’s Ulysses, The Dead from The Dubliners, and recently Frank McCourts’ Angela’a Ashes. I spent time in Ireland recovering from malaria in my return from Africa and the experience was of a then very Catholic faithful people. There’s been a sea change since there and elsewhere except Africa. The African church is alive and well and resistant to the liberal West including the trend to sanitize homosexuality.

...

1. 
   
   Tanja

   May 28, 2018 at 11:25 pm

   What shaped culture Catholicism was not ethnicity, it was the faith and devotion of Catholics.What we can see immediately as a result of religious and moral relativism, is chaos, rampant grave sin and suffering.What then can the Church offer to suffering souls, if She also was taken by the world? Problems within the Church were way before Vatican II,low attendance to Mass, poorly catechised Catholics,etc. There were many reasons for that, thus Vatican II was called for, and yet many abuses ensued.You left out the clergy sexual abuse, and as I see it was one of the main reasons for Catholics to leave the Church.And it is not a “cozy”, multicultural church that will fix that.

...

1. 
   
   Leslie

   May 29, 2018 at 10:48 am

   One of the things that united us was that the Mass was the same everywhere, in Latin; no matter where you went in the world.

   “Gotta have the Mass in my very own language” sounds a lot like dumping Catholic culture for local culture.