ASK FATHER: Are permanent deacons necessary?

Author: 

Amerikaner, CasaSanBruno, Eric,  maternalView, Red_Shirt_Hero, jlduskey, TonyO             

Date: 
Thursday, October 3, 2019 - 23:00
Article link: 
Amerikaner says:

 

Deacons are clerics. Does the Church have an obligation to financially/other support deacons? I ask as I believe it has to for priests, right? But most permanent deacons seem to have to support themselves.

CasaSanBruno says:

 

Recently, I had to give some talks in Manila and was interested to learn that the Filipino Bishops’ Conference opted out of the new permanent deacons program from the get-go, saying we need capable men catechizing and proselytizing and not more people in the sanctuary.

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Eric says:

 

Our diocese allows them to wear clerical dress. Unfortunately in my experience, I have found “clericalism” in the permanent diaconate rampant. The N.O. liturgy when they are present seems more often than not an attempt to find “space” for them, not a true integral part like you see in the TLM or Eastern Rites, and I often find them overemphasizing their role that breaks up any natural flow.

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maternalView says:

 

There’s a parish near me that lists “deacon couples” in their bulletin. I don’t think that’s the only parish that does that. I was told by one man he couldn’t become a deacon because his wife wasn’t interested in going through the program with him. Apparently in Chicago the wife has to participate also. Not sure when that was instituted.

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Red_Shirt_Hero says:

 

Eric, could I ask how, in your experience, the NO makes attempts to make space for deacons? [full disclosure – I’m a deacon, of the permanent variety] The rubrics are clear as to the deacon’s role, which doesn’t differ much from that at a solemn TLM, other than bidding prayers, albeit even at a spoken ‘low’ NO Mass. Any attempt to give a deacon a role other than that permitted by liturgical law would be an abuse.

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jlduskey says:

 

Bishop Alfred Mendez, C.S.C., retired bishop of Arecebo, Puerto Rico, and a traditionalist, was one of the bishops who proposed the permanent diacoanate during the Second Vatican Council. I had the opportunity to speak with him in July 1988. He indicated that the purpose was to care for the reserved Blessed Sacrament in chapels and churches that were located in towns where the priest can only visit once or twice a month. (Apparently there were parts of the world that suffer from a priest shortage even back then.) The local deacon was responsible for the safety and security of the Blessed Sacrament, but he could also distribute Communion and conduct Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament and other devotions outside of Mass, in the (prolonged) absence of a priest. Deacons, in general, do not rely on the Church for their financial support. If there are enough priests in a diocese, deacons might not be needed. But if they are needed, they should be very well trained, educated, and able to serve the Church in a number of roles.
It was not in his original vision to add to the number of people in the sanctuary during Mass. However, during Mass, the deacon’s proper place may be in the sanctuary. If it appears there are too many people in the sanctuary, they should reduce the number of non-ordained (lectors, acolytes, and other lay people), The deacon is capable of serving in these other ministries.

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TonyO says:

 

Father Z, can you comment on the theory that universal Church teaching and legislative direction is that deacons (all of them, including the permanent variety) are bound to the constant practice of continence? (I.E. not having conjugal relations with their wives, at all.) If I recall correctly, I believe that Dr. Ed Peters affirms that this has always been the Church’s position, and that nothing after Vatican II changed it. On the other hand, as far as I know there is no diocese in the US that teaches its permanent deacons that this is teaching and legislative rule of the Church. I know of permanent deacons who have had children after being ordained, without any apparent concern or doubt that this presented a problem.

Instituted acolytes are also extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion by right of their institution.

Geoffrey, I think that “by right of their institution” means that they are ordinary ministers of Holy Communion, not extraordinary. I had thought that the required level was higher than that of instituted acolyte, (i.e. required ordination to the diaconate) but I could be mistaken. It would be great if you could point me to a source, thanks.

[I am inclined to agree with Dr. Peters. And the Church can always change the wording to make the situation clear.]

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APX says:

 

There’s a parish near me that lists “deacon couples” in their bulletin. I don’t think that’s the only parish that does that. I was told by one man he couldn’t become a deacon because his wife wasn’t interested in going through the program with him. Apparently in Chicago the wife has to participate also. Not sure when that was instituted.

Married men who seek ordination (be it the deaconate or the Priesthood) must have their wife’s permission. It makes sense for wives to go through the program as well so they understand what their husband is getting into. This doesn’t surprise me. What would surprise me is if someone wasn’t allowed to become a permanent deacon because they weren’t married, which in such case would be bound to a life of celibacy such as a transitional deacon.

 

 

JabbaPapasays:

 

A Transitional Deacon says:

  • TonyO,

    Canon 910 states that acolytes are extraordinary ministers of holy communion. This is also stated in GIRM 98GIRM 100 makes it clear, though, that instituted acolytes are to be preferred over other lay extraordinary ministers.

 
JabbaPapa says:

 

maternalView :

There’s a parish near me that lists “deacon couples” in their bulletin. I don’t think that’s the only parish that does that. I was told by one man he couldn’t become a deacon because his wife wasn’t interested in going through the program with him. Apparently in Chicago the wife has to participate also. Not sure when that was instituted.

Well this “deacon couples” thing is obviously dodgy — but as to your other point, without not just consent by his spouse but also some actual active participation, no married man may receive ordination.

To be the wife of a deacon or priest is a vocation in itself (supplemental to the vocation of Matrimony) which needs to be Catholic, honest, and freely given.

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mike cliffson says:

 

I pass on as an ignorant old fuddy, FWIW, :a knowledgeable Spanish Layman I know middle-aged married with kids some years in the states told me that in the United States of America the permanent diaconate*’ ,s being a right disaster in general and that the original intention of the council fathers in the second Vatican Council was not for the Deacons to be in the parishes but rather to be the Bishop’s sidekicks …not quite curia as I understood it.
BTW he calls the” spirit of Vatican II “what council fathers not that periti intended , like the apostolic origin, as opposed to what is usually understood in English by the spirit of Vatican II
* Still few permanent deacons in Spain ,I only know one , excelkent long formation, wife into it, and is directly under his Bishops authority as to where he goes and when to do what….my intuition is that he is extremely deferential outwardly and inwardly to priests.

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tzabiega says:

 

I agree that the main problem with permanent deacons is their incompetent formation. Working in a hospital, I am grateful for the wonderful pastoral assistance the deacons provide when a priest is not always available (especially when it is not in regards to administering the Anointing of the Sick, but spiritual guidance). But, though I have seen many goofy priests, the intellectual formation of the many priests I have met is at a much higher level than that of even the most wonderful permanent deacons I have known (and that includes some that were also physicians). With the ability these days to provide good training in philosophy and theology through internet based programs, those wishing to become permanent deacons need to be required to attain the equivalent of a master’s in theology through a rigorous, competent program. This is especially important since often they are the ones who offer pre-baptismal and pre-marriage preparation at a parish. So they need to know and understand what they are teaching equivalent to that of the priests, because after all, it is to the deacons that the responsibility of transmitting the teaching of the Gospel is given to at their ordination. That is another problem with allowing permanent deacons to become priests in places like the Amazon: the intellectual quality of priests will decline even further.

 

Dcn PB says:

 

The term “deacon couple” has to go as there is no such thing. We don’t refer to married priests and their wives as “priest couples.” This is terribly theologically inaccurate.

With regard to the wife not being interested, in order for a man to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders his wife must make a clear assent to the bishop and she needs to know what she is assenting to. If she doesn’t want her husband to be a deacon, the bishop will not ordain him.

 

Deacon Pat O says:

 

The question on continence has been asked of the competent authorities in Rome and answered:

“the Pontifical Council’s observations on the matter (Prot. N. 13095/2011). The observations, which were formulated in consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, clarify that married permanent deacons are not bound to observe perfect and perpetual continence, as long as their marriage lasts.”

 

Own comment: 

My first instict with regards to any innovation by the Second Vatican Council is to be against it, because no good fruit can come from a bad tree, and trees do not get much worse than Vatican II. For that reason I would have to be instinctively against permanent deacons.

On reflection that instinct is proven correct as we have seen that the introduction of deacons - who in most people's mind are laymen and not ordained men - has spiralled to talk of having deaconesses. Without having introduced deacons then it would not be possible to even entertain that notion.

Whatever intentions may have been there, we see that the devil has taken control of a Vatican II innovation and used it for evil purposes, which is not surprising as that has been the case for ALL of the innovations of Vatican II.