ASK FATHER: “I am doubting that the current Catholic Church is the Church it has always claimed to be”

Author: 

PetersBarque,iamlucky13,  Hidden One , St. Irenaeus ,Augustine Thompson O.P. rcg, LarryW2LJ, Johann, grumpyoldCatholic

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Bellarmino Vianney,

            

Date: 
Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 23:00
Article link: 

 

PetersBarque says:

What a travesty that Catholics feel duped by the very ones who are suppose to protect them. PF is an ass (there, I said it) and is responsible for much of the present angst. He either refuses or is unable to deal with the reality of this dire situation. Naming clericalism as the root cause for the current crisis is analogous to blaming incest on careerism. God is a good Father who works in mysterious ways and always for our good. So can He use an ass to bring about His will? Yes, He can, and we must trust that He will, but that doesn’t mean we stop fighting for Truth to reign supreme in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

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iamlucky13 says:

“Any religion which demands nothing of its believers also asks you not to believe it.”

I would contend on the contrary, it is not the Church that demands nothing of its believers, but certain members of the Church.

Don’t confuse the Church with those in it. Christ warned us about wolves in sheep’s clothing. Even among the shepherds who were faithful, Peter fled from his calling multiple times, and Paul reminded us that he personally struggled with a “thorn.”

In addition to obedience to the Commandments, the Church has demanded many things of her members over the centuries. Many of the routine disciplines are very easy these days, but nothing prevents any of us from following older precepts or disciplines. The leaders of the Church may fail to clearly teach obedience to the Commandments, but the Commandments remain the same, and we can always examine our consciences and try to find ways to improve our adherence to them out of love for God.

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Hidden One says:

I refuse spiritual suicide chosen on the ground that others are committing spiritual manslaughter.

Judas was a bishop.

 

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St. Irenaeus says:

Saw something today that tracks with what I’ve been thinking: pray, tend to your corner of the garden, participate in the sacraments.

I’d also point out history is a good tonic: 1 Corinthians, Arian crisis, Pope Honorius, Medicis/Borgias…it’s not like the Church on earth was flawless until recent decades. And that’s an opportunity to refine our theology, as Fr Z does re Christ, not the Pope, being the head of the Church.

Those are things we can do. Good mental and emotional health involves controlling what you can, and letting go of what you can’t. None of us can control what Team Francis or the USCCB or a local clergyman does; we could pray for them, though.

This is a time of sifting: most days I start to go crazy when I read the news out of Rome or Baltimore etc. I haven’t been good about deep prayer, seeking the saints, etc. When I slow down and think about it, it’s like the moment is challenging me to do it, or not, to fish, or cut bait, to pray, or wallow in despond.

These are the cards we’re dealt. May seem a bad hand, but we’ve got to play them. And Christ and the saints are the aces up our sleeves.

On that note, I’m reminded of the famous exchange in the “other” Scriptures, Lord of the Rings:

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

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Augustine Thompson O.P. says:

If the “current Catholic Church” is not the true church, and, as is painfully obvious, none of the other so-called Christian sects are the true Church, then it is clear that Christianity is a false religion. Think about it.

 

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rcg says:

This era strengthens my Faith because we have been praying for a cleansing and here it is. Humans like the big clash of shields and mighty comeuppance. But we are seeing a selective judgement with degrees of punishment at each bowge customized for the offenders. Someday soon we will awake to find the walls no longer crawling with vermin and wonder, where was the lightening and thunder when all we heard was the whisper of a breeze.

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Bellarmino Vianney says:

Great response, Fr. Z.

The questioner seems to be seriously misled as to what the Roman Catholic Church actually is. The questioner appears to have the Protestant mentality which is that Catholicism and the Roman Catholic Church is like a political party. That is a heretical and/or gravely erroneous understanding of both Catholicism and the Church. The Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church and the One True Religion. All others are false.

Read the Book of Revelation (2:1ff) on how leaders of the Catholic Church were heading down the right paths or wrong paths. The Church remains the Church regardless of how the leaders of the Church act. A car remains a car regardless of how its driver acts.

Right now, the vast majority of Church “leaders” are acting like the Church leaders in “La-odice’a” (Rev. 3:14ff).

The Protestant mentality which views the Catholic Church like a political party appears to stem, in part, from the heresy that “everyone goes to heaven” or “all baptized go to heaven” or “no one can be condemned forever, that is contrary to the Gospel!”; from that heresy, many “branches” of false churches were formed, and the leaders of those false churches then approach Christianity from subjectivist standpoint. They then portray the Catholic Church as just another “branch” or “variety” for one to choose.

That is heresy.

A food analogy partly describes how Protestants and other false religions have portrayed the Catholic Church: some people will eat beef and rice, others will eat chicken noodle soup, but both of them are equally nourished.

That analogy is then falsely applied to the Catholic Church, falsely suggesting that the Catholic Church is merely a different variety whereas all varieties lead to the same end. That, again, is false. There is only one Church which nourishes and leads one to heaven. That Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ, It is the Roman Catholic Church.

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LarryW2LJ says:

If I may add something, before I forget. It has been said many times that God always has some good come out of a bad situation. As a result of the happenings that have been occurring, I have never drawn so close to our Blessed Mother as I have these past few years. I’ve been praying that she’ll draw US ALL so ever closer to her Son; and as a result, I feel myself drawn so closer to both of them than ever before.

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Johann says:

“We are not baptized into the hierarchy; do not receive the Cardinals sacramentally; will not spend an eternity in the beatific vision of the pope. … Christ is the point. I, myself, admire the present pope [John Paul II], but even if I criticized him as harshly as some do, even if his successor proved to be as bad as some of those who have gone before, even if I find the church, as I have to live with it, a pain in the neck, I should still say that nothing a pope (or a priest) could do or say would make me wish to leave the church, although I might well wish that they would leave.”-Frank Sheed

 

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grumpyoldCatholic says:

Of course this isn’t the Catholic church of old Vatican II destroyed it

 

 

 

Own comment: 

The Novus Ordo Church is clearly not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church still exists though, eclipsed by NOChurch. The doctrines are still intact, the moral demands on us remain unchanged.I cannot blame people for feeling de-moralised, but we ought to keep in mind that we do not worship the pope, and we have never been asked to believe that we cannot have a bad pope, which is good because we now have the worst in history.

We ought in some ways to be grateful that this period in the Church's history affords us a clear choice which many Christians past did not have. It is much easier for us to choose sides and fight for Christ, in a way in which Catholics who grew up in Catholic cultures never did.

The commenter Johann has a good quote, which I shall use to conclude my comment:

“We are not baptized into the hierarchy; do not receive the Cardinals sacramentally; will not spend an eternity in the beatific vision of the pope. … Christ is the point. I, myself, admire the present pope [John Paul II], but even if I criticized him as harshly as some do, even if his successor proved to be as bad as some of those who have gone before, even if I find the church, as I have to live with it, a pain in the neck, I should still say that nothing a pope (or a priest) could do or say would make me wish to leave the church, although I might well wish that they would leave.”-Frank Sheed

We do well to remember that.