Abuse Crisis: In Defending the Church, Dump These Excuses

Date: 
Saturday, September 22, 2018 - 23:45
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        The other one that ticks me off is: "The church is made up of fallen men".

        Fallen men! Really! This is not about "fallen men" this is diabolical evil and objectively criminal activity. The fallen man screws up and gets drunk, masturbates to porn in a moment of weakness, maybe even cheats on his spouse once. This is not about simple sins, this is about a premeditated scheme to destroy the church, cover up sodomy, and make it possible for serial predators to prey on each other and the faithful. These men are not just sinful they are reprobates and they must be called out and eliminated.

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        You just said the magic word that we're not supposed to notice or talk about:
        *sodomy*

        There. In a nutshell. Priests who engage in this are no better than those in Afghanistan who rape the "tea boys".

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      Exactly and thank you.

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      Did Jesus have the attitude you have? Did't he come "for us men and our salvation"? Didn't he say that those who have been forgiven much love much? You don't seem to believe in the power of grace to bring about real convertion even of the greatest perverts. I have been a priest for 37 years and my experience has been that those who have committed very serious sins, incluiding sexual abuse of minors, murder, homosexuality, and some a long list of them fro over 50 years have been the most repentent people I have ever met. Even some of the greatest enemies of the Church such as Voltarie have asked for a priest before dying. I pray that the Lord will change your attitude and maybe you will discover that there are areas in your own life that need to be fixed. Yes, of course, anger at the gravity of th grave of sins clerics is understandable, and St. Thomas Aquinas in his treatise on the passions, points out that there is righteous and virtuous anger, but it should also be moderated. In invite you to "work out your on salvation in fear and trembling" and while you do it, pray and offer sacrifices for those who have committed the sins you justly decry. Why does the Church pulll all the stops in its effort to bring the sacraments, and in the first place Confession to those in danger of death? It was for that reason that Jesus came into the world and founded the Church. The Church has neer been in he business of ·"eliminating" anyone and canonical penalties such as excommunaction are there in order to help the sinner to repent. The Church is not in the business of "locking up criminals and thowing away the key" or sending anyone to hell.

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        No, no, no. This is precisely the wrong note and part of the problem. Do you not see how your comments can sound: "poor Father, he had a hard time with chastity". No. Not one acknowledgment of the pain of the victims, or the damage to the faith of probably millions, as noted in the article. And then to suggest ("invite") the poster to work out his salvation in fear and trembling, as if he is not already doing that as a faithful Catholic, is a bit much.

        Look, no one is denying that Christ loves the abusers as much as everyone else, and of course we hope for their conversion/repentance.

        The point, however, is not the eternal destiny of the abusers, but the actual actions of the Church, more specifically, the church hierarchy, and its abysmal record with respect to not only child abuse, but the whole McCarrick matter. How many non-bishops had to have known about his actions, and did nothing? To allow that sort of evil and sin to persist, and apparently without any mechanism to correct it, or, perhaps more pertinently, any will to challenge it, is mind boggling, and the laity are quite properly angry.

        Honestly, for any priest or bishop to have any response to the recent allegations (both the PA grand jury and the McCarrick matter) other than 1) extended public penance on the part of the entire hierarchy, and 2) frank discussion that the problem is sin in the Church, comes off as phony. 'Mistakes were made, new policies are in place' no. Enough.

        I get that most priests are not guilty of abusing minors. I am less sure about the numbers of priests who know that Fr. So-and-so has a boyfriend, or that Fr. Such-n-such was an active homosexual in seminary but have said nothing, putting their heads down in order to get ordained. I get that it is not fair to paint all with the same broad brush. However (you knew there would be a 'however'), the problem is we, the laity, no longer know who is who, and the disregard with which all the bishops and priests are to some extent currently regarded is much more of their own doing than the laity's. Priests and bishops should be leading the public prayers for the remission of the sins of the Church. Then, and only then, invite the laity to join their efforts to that of the priests and bishops.

        For while it is undoubtedly true that all members of the Church need to work out their salvation in fear and trembling, and that prayers for conversion, repentance, and remission of sin are needed from everyone, it is, in my opinion, the absolute wrong note to suggest, in the face of the manifest and ongoing failure of the Church's leaders, that the laity need to sanctify themselves more. Yikes! That is the wrong message (even though it is unassailably true).

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      Well, as a priest you should know that forgiveness starts with true contrition and a promise to amend one's life. These men have showed no such contrition when they plot and scheme to cover up and white wash their diabolical behavior. Most of them are serial sodomites and, like "Father" James Martin, see it as some type of twisted gift to the church.

      All sinners are entitled to forgiveness, but you do not give booze to a drunk or a Playboy to a porn addict. These men can seek forgiveness where they do not have access to children or seminarians and can no longer scandalize the flock or damage the Bride of Christ. I am sure a jail cell and frequent visits from their fellow inmates will give them the incentive to seek the forgiveness they did not ask for while they were raping little boys or bugger each other on retreats or hiding behind the mercy of Christ while ignoring his terrible justice.

      I would also add the Priest, who do not directly participate in these abominations, have all been silent, all the while knowing the truth of the situation. They have all, with very few exceptions, fiddled while they watched Rome burn.

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      ABSOLUTELY. Please pass it along. You can find the homily at St. Raphael's Parish in Chrystal, MN - it was from August 19. Thank you so much.

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    While it is understandable that you want to stick up for your fellow priests, it boggles my mind how you all that preach that we must examine ourselves first fail to see that if everyone did that, then no one would stand up for anything!

    One is "eliminated" from a job, from a post. One is sent to jail for crimes against another. Can we agree that these men who have committed evil against "these little ones" and those who have winked at evil should at least be fired?

    With all due respect: just as things being a "Mystery" is Catholic for "just leave it alone," the route of only offering sacrifices and praying seems to be the Catholic for "shut up already."

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    We should be held to the higher standard, because in the whole world now, we are the intellectual, philosophical, spiritual institution that still believes in such a thing as an objective moral standard. In the history of the world, in the pagan world that have continually surrounded the Church and in the neo-pagan Modern world we are in now, this kind of abuse is common, excused, relativized. Society wouldn't even consider this wrong if not for the legacy of Christendom which we are blythely discarding.

    This scandal is not just a matter of sinners. Many of these people seem to have no remorse: they say "I don't remember that" or provide other excuses when they should be throwing themselves on the ground begging their victims and God for mercy and forgiveness. This is a diabolical attack. They are using the moral standards of the Church to destroy the moral authority of the Church, to do away with those exact same moral standards of the Church! There are multiple reasons this must be STRONGLY opposed and eliminated in the Church, for the protection of the victims on earth and the protection of EVERY soul on earth. Because I believe the source of the abuse is Satan, trying to bring the Church as a whole down. And those priests, bishops, cardinals, etc who are participating, no matter how many or how few, are his infernal minions. Let's don't excuse them, let's root them out. We HAVE to root them out.

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      My family and I have come against this source at a catholic school. It defends itself in unimaginable ways and can be felt as a ponderous, depressive force which deploys its human servants against those who would change the status quo. It was not possible for us to root out the thing we opposed. It was more powerful than us. I can’t explain it, and no amount of prior cleansing and prayer on my part was able to mitigate its forceful attack. It has features not unlike a social insect colony in its self defense. It’s not possible to explain what people actually encounter as it involves preternatural forces.

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      Understand. If you remember the old 1950's movie "The Blob": you can't hit it, you can't fight it head on, it will just absorb you AND especially your children. In Catholic schools in the US, too often it is the Liberal Education Blob with the Catholic Liberal Blob, combined.

      IF we can't put a dent in it, "Fight" may mean setting up and raising parallel institutions, homeschooling, and being ready to pick up the pieces when the evil that they do causes them to collapse under their own weight. My wife was an english education major: she told me stories about how teachers are trained to handle parents, to emphasize that the teachers are the experts while pretending to listen and take their concern seriously.

      If you have not left the Church, you have not left the fight. To really stretch a metaphor, we may be on our own version of Mao's Long March, which strengthens both us (as only the committed remain) and gives the enemy room to self destruct (which they appear to be doing). You are not yet victorious, but you aren't defeated either.

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    Been in the same types of battles. God bless you and all who resist. Just resisting mentally slows them down.

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    I'm wondering, though, in what this article-writer's usual venue of reading consists. For decades---until discovering 1P5, Church Militant, Ann Barnhardt's podcasts, The RemnantVideos and one or two other sites---the periodicals I had access to ran the gamut of opinions from A to B.

    The Catholic Thing was a bridge, briefly...and then they dropped their combox and directed readers to Facebook and Twitter, for neither of which I have the patience.

    I attribute the defensive arguments cited in the article to all those purveyors of the party line I haven't wasted time on for some three or four years already. I don't recognize them from any of the articles or from any but a paltry few of the commenters at 1P5. They seem almost quaint at this point. Maybe I'm just jaded and stuck at the other end of the gamut, at Z now. But I certainly don't feel the need to be warned against making any excuses whatsoever for the diabolical.

    [One worthy exception to the diet of disgustedness is Father Mike Schmitz of Liighthouse Catholic Media. His brief talks pretty much avoid the current controversies, but from what I've seen he's morally very solid.]

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      The people at "Z" are constantly referring back to the people at A-Q. It is kinda like those old texts in the early Church where the original text is long lost, but we know it existed because you can find various people arguing about it or refuting it. I fit this into that category: Mr. Foye is reading those things (maybe) but we have already heard them, and aren't wasting our time.

      Unfortunately, I too often waste my time on a secular conservative site "Breitbart", which is covering the Pope from their own conservative-libertarian standpoint. That isn't that bad, but the comment box...oh the comment box. We see the gamut of A to way way Dr. Suess' "On beyond Zebra", with a substantial portion consisting of people who know about the church from Chick Tracts (and all of which claim "I was a catholic, and I know you worship Mary as a Goddess and the Pope wears the babylonian Dagon fish god hat"). Some of the catholic comments do attempt still to point out the "others are worse" points.

      I'm thinking about 10% of Catholics are here, 20% are James Martin Liberals, and the other 70% are just going along, tired of the abuse, tired of the press, and just want it to stop. They accept that Francis is a humble Champion of the poor, because the press says so.

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    I think we are going down a rabbit hole on this one, to quote that slimy liar Cardinal Cupich. The crisis is one of Faith, not 'abuse.' The abuse comes from that lack of Faith, not the other way around. I realize that for most people the only thing that wakes them up nowadays is the cry of 'abuse' and 'the children.' Sorry to sound cynical but column after column about the abuse is too much. We, I mean my fellow faithful, traditional Catholics must start to call out the real problem.

    I know several Catholics who are moaning and groaning about the 'abuse' of 'children' but who think homosexuality is sent by God, and that we must embrace this difference, and be all up close and personal in the Communion line(sic) with these practicing homosexuals. Because they have no idea of how to put one thought next to another and get any sense, they are able to hold contradiction in their thinking just fine.

    There's a huge cry out there, "it IS a homosexual issue," yes, but the more important issue is the loss of Faith in so many.

    Our Lady (and Benedict XVI) talked about apostasy. That's the problem. All the rest is symptom.

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      You make a good point, Barbara. Those Catholics forgetful of the chilling warning about unnatural sexual acts given by St. Paul in Romans are merely dragging into the Church attitudes now current in pop culture. It's no accident that a blond lesbian 'entertainer' and a Black lesbian newscaster both appear on the ABC network; that another lesbian leftist is a staple at MSNBC; or that CNN has an almost complete lineup of sodomite males delivering 'news' and opinions. (I'm gleaning this knowledge from Twitter since I never watch any television). Pop culture loves sodomy and saphism, and those too feeble-minded to turn off the boob tube swallow the poison along with whatever else they find there.

      But it seems to me that secular culture has an easier time squaring this circle than Church culture has. All the intellectual freaks in the world like James Martin SJ cannot now rewrite 2000 years of constant teaching. And the teaching about sodomy, just like the constant teaching about the liceity of capital punishment, IS central to the faith. Pull any plank like either these two out of the structure, and the entire Church collapses around us.

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I don't think asserting the facts {call them "excuses" if you like} eliminates the ability to uncompromisingly demand the higher standard from the Church. In fact, I believe we must not forget that the CC does not have a monopoly on sex abuse. Seek truth, announce it and let the chips fall where they may.

If anything has been exposed in the last 20 years on this topic, it is that sex abuse is absolutely pervasive in our culture. That doesn't mean it has to be, because we can cite many, many families and groups where it has not occurred, BUT...sadly, even horrifyingly, we have now seen how common it is.

So what to do?

Folks, I know this is not popular, ESPECIALLY among Catholics, but truly, we need to reassess our understanding of justice and punishments for these crimes. We must begin to demand justice, retribution and punishment, severe punishment especially for clergy and prelate offenders. We can no longer pretend that people are nice and if just mollycoddled they will be even nicer. No, in fact, some are just plain evil and need to be severely punished for what they do, and that punishment needs to be publicized. To my mind, some of the gravest offenses recently described demand the most severe of punishments, and speaking purely of justice, maybe even the death penalty. Surely in past times that would have been a given.

CATHOLICS need to be first in line to demand harsh punishments be applied to our leaders who have offended or covered up. No matter how "nice" they may be.

I have for a long time believed that a revulsion for punishment and retributive justice grew out of the catastrophic violence of a century of war and political chaos all over the globe. I believe WW2 in particular impacted the thought processes of the post-War Popes, and seriously wonder if all of them were traumatized with varying degrees of PTSD so much so that they began to promote a bizarre, justice-less toleration-of-everything mentality that has now crept into the common "teaching on the street" of the Catholic Church. Add the sexual revolution to the mix and we have utter chaos.

That a Pope {John XXIII} could state that people no longer need to be reminded about evil was preposterous, but it happened. Can there be any surprise that evil itself then grew inside the Church and those responsible for its elimination have simply not done that job?

But as for what the author suggests are excuses, yet are facts he admits, no, we cannot simply ignore reality. We must address the pervasiveness of evil by reminding the world that it exists among all groups, while at the same time demanding the harshest punishments for those among us guilty of committing it. Both can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Own comment: 

The Church should be raising standards, not settling for those of decadent society and definitely not lowering them. We should expect Church leaders to be the most morally upright men around, and call them out mercilessly when they spread immorality.

It is true that sexual abuse is pervasive, and it is everywhere, and certainly the Church does not have more of it than other institutions. As the author writes though, other institutions are not the Church, and they are not divine, nor meant for divine ends. We should be more forceful in attacking immorality within the Church than outside, for as Christ said, once salt has lost its flavour, it is good for nothing. If the Church loses sight of her mission - as NOChurch has done -, She is not only worthless but downright nefarious, because wicked men can then give the impression that evil is good.

Traditionalists have been saying this for a long time, and it is about time that others look around and give us credit where we deserve, and apologise for calumniating us. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the solution is simple: Go back to Tradition! That includes traditional practices as well as canonical disciplines.